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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: SimChurch</title>
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	<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/</link>
	<description>...thinking strategically about Internet ministry</description>
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		<title>By: Lars Rood</title>
		<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/comment-page-1/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Rood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 21:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Now this would not be a big issue to me if it were not for the fact that these online churches never encourage those participating online to find to a physical-world church.&quot;

You had me until this quote.  I have been a part of an online worshiping community for a number of months and find that it is a great expression and connection for me.  But, I also know that most if not all of us also have real world churches that we are actively engaged in.   

One of the benefits for me with the online service I attend is it allows me to interact with and worship along side of people who have very different theological views than me.  We would probably never attend a similar real world church but we do in the online world. I find myself challenged by and engaged with people I wouldn&#039;t normally interact with.  

I appreciate your write up. My book is being delivered by Amazon today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Now this would not be a big issue to me if it were not for the fact that these online churches never encourage those participating online to find to a physical-world church.&#8221;</p>
<p>You had me until this quote.  I have been a part of an online worshiping community for a number of months and find that it is a great expression and connection for me.  But, I also know that most if not all of us also have real world churches that we are actively engaged in.   </p>
<p>One of the benefits for me with the online service I attend is it allows me to interact with and worship along side of people who have very different theological views than me.  We would probably never attend a similar real world church but we do in the online world. I find myself challenged by and engaged with people I wouldn&#8217;t normally interact with.  </p>
<p>I appreciate your write up. My book is being delivered by Amazon today.</p>
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		<title>By: Neal Locke</title>
		<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/comment-page-1/#comment-799</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/?p=686#comment-799</guid>
		<description>Hi Dave,

I&#039;m a member of an online community of faith.  We use the word &quot;church&quot; in our title (1st Presbyterian Church of Second Life) but we are still, like you, struggling with questions of what that actually means (and also how it fits into our denominational heritage and polity) before we consider ourselves a full fledged &quot;church.&quot;

Here&#039;s where I agree with you: 

&quot;I am still not convinced that the participation in a church service accessed over the Internet and mediated via a computer is the same as actually attending a church physically.&quot;

I think they are very different.  They will *always* be very different due to the inherent difference in the two mediums.  However, that doesn&#039;t necessarily mean that one is better or worse than the other.

I also agree with your next statement, but allow me to modify it, and add to it:

&quot;The types of worship, fellowship, and community experienced online **can be** anemic compared to what one can get by fully participating in a physical-world church (not to mention the issues with communion and baptism).&quot;

The asterisks indicate my modification.  I would also add that conversely, in my own experience, the types of worship, fellowship, and community experienced in a physical world church can be quite anemic compared to what one **can get** by fully participating in an online church.

One problem I have with much of the discussion surrounding the issue of online churches is that the harshest critics (compared to which you are very fair, balanced, and open minded--and I appreciate that) are also the most unwilling to experience online worship for themselves.  

This makes disagreeing with them kind of like disagreeing with a blind person about what color an elephant is.

If you haven&#039;t had the experience yet, I&#039;d encourage you to do so as you tackle this issue.  There are, of course, &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot; churches online just as there are in physical space.  I can recommend the following ones, though (which you can find via google search or through search in second life itself):

1. Koinonia Congregational Church (meets Wednesdays @ 8pm Central time)
2. Anglican Cathedral of Second Life (various meeting times throughout the week)
3. Church of the Dawntreader (meets Tuesdays @ 9pm Central time)
4. 1st Presbyterian Church of Second Life (meets for prayer service Sundays @9pm Central time)

You would be enthusiastically welcomed at any of the above, and would find plenty of conversation partners for an in depth and honest exploration of what it means to be a virtual church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dave,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a member of an online community of faith.  We use the word &#8220;church&#8221; in our title (1st Presbyterian Church of Second Life) but we are still, like you, struggling with questions of what that actually means (and also how it fits into our denominational heritage and polity) before we consider ourselves a full fledged &#8220;church.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s where I agree with you: </p>
<p>&#8220;I am still not convinced that the participation in a church service accessed over the Internet and mediated via a computer is the same as actually attending a church physically.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think they are very different.  They will *always* be very different due to the inherent difference in the two mediums.  However, that doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that one is better or worse than the other.</p>
<p>I also agree with your next statement, but allow me to modify it, and add to it:</p>
<p>&#8220;The types of worship, fellowship, and community experienced online **can be** anemic compared to what one can get by fully participating in a physical-world church (not to mention the issues with communion and baptism).&#8221;</p>
<p>The asterisks indicate my modification.  I would also add that conversely, in my own experience, the types of worship, fellowship, and community experienced in a physical world church can be quite anemic compared to what one **can get** by fully participating in an online church.</p>
<p>One problem I have with much of the discussion surrounding the issue of online churches is that the harshest critics (compared to which you are very fair, balanced, and open minded&#8211;and I appreciate that) are also the most unwilling to experience online worship for themselves.  </p>
<p>This makes disagreeing with them kind of like disagreeing with a blind person about what color an elephant is.</p>
<p>If you haven&#8217;t had the experience yet, I&#8217;d encourage you to do so as you tackle this issue.  There are, of course, &#8220;good&#8221; and &#8220;bad&#8221; churches online just as there are in physical space.  I can recommend the following ones, though (which you can find via google search or through search in second life itself):</p>
<p>1. Koinonia Congregational Church (meets Wednesdays @ 8pm Central time)<br />
2. Anglican Cathedral of Second Life (various meeting times throughout the week)<br />
3. Church of the Dawntreader (meets Tuesdays @ 9pm Central time)<br />
4. 1st Presbyterian Church of Second Life (meets for prayer service Sundays @9pm Central time)</p>
<p>You would be enthusiastically welcomed at any of the above, and would find plenty of conversation partners for an in depth and honest exploration of what it means to be a virtual church.</p>
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		<title>By: Discussions Continue About SimChurch &#124; Greg Atkinson</title>
		<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/comment-page-1/#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator>Discussions Continue About SimChurch &#124; Greg Atkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/?p=686#comment-778</guid>
		<description>[...] Book Review of SimChurch at Dave Bourgeois&#8217; blog, Lessons from Babel [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Book Review of SimChurch at Dave Bourgeois&#8217; blog, Lessons from Babel [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Steinbrueck</title>
		<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/comment-page-1/#comment-777</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Steinbrueck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/?p=686#comment-777</guid>
		<description>Dave, thanks for posting the review.  Like you I&#039;m skeptical that a virtual church can really function as God intended the body of Christ to function. I&#039;ve blogged about it too:

http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/08/online-church-online-sex/
http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/09/online-church-spiritual-fast-food/

However, I&#039;m always interested to hear another perspective on the topic.  I received a copy of SimChurch.  Haven&#039;t started into it yet, but your post renewed my interest to get to it ASAP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, thanks for posting the review.  Like you I&#8217;m skeptical that a virtual church can really function as God intended the body of Christ to function. I&#8217;ve blogged about it too:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/08/online-church-online-sex/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/08/online-church-online-sex/</a><br />
<a href="http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/09/online-church-spiritual-fast-food/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.ourchurch.com/2009/07/09/online-church-spiritual-fast-food/</a></p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m always interested to hear another perspective on the topic.  I received a copy of SimChurch.  Haven&#8217;t started into it yet, but your post renewed my interest to get to it ASAP.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Estes</title>
		<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/comment-page-1/#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Estes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/?p=686#comment-776</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the review, Dave!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review, Dave!</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Marcy</title>
		<link>http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/2009/10/21/book-review-simchurch/comment-page-1/#comment-775</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Marcy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://genesys11.com/lessonsfrombabel/?p=686#comment-775</guid>
		<description>Excellent post. Fair and balanced perspective.

In time, I believe we will look back at the decisions made on these issues  as the turning point in outreach oriented church communications. 

God Himself will show us what&#039;s best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post. Fair and balanced perspective.</p>
<p>In time, I believe we will look back at the decisions made on these issues  as the turning point in outreach oriented church communications. </p>
<p>God Himself will show us what&#8217;s best.</p>
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